Comments on: Of RPGs and Knowledge http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/ Musings on Electronics and Culture Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:40:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: What Makes a Great RPG? (from Jeff Freeman) http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25072 What Makes a Great RPG? (from Jeff Freeman) Tue, 02 Oct 2007 09:56:03 +0000 http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25072 [...] Of RPGs and Knowledge (Augury) [...] [...] Of RPGs and Knowledge (Augury) [...]

]]> By: Cineris http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25060 Cineris Tue, 02 Oct 2007 01:15:53 +0000 http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25060 @bkw: Unfortunately, not all the players in MMOs are interested in fostering an immersive game setting. Even that aside, another reason why the idea of MMO-as-living-persistent-world doesn't seem ideal to me is that someone is going to have to play the roles normally taken by NPCs. Though there are some people who enjoy this, I don't, and I don't think a substantial enough portion of the MMO community does to support a game that was purely player-to-player interaction. @hank: That's a pretty good alternative vision of what makes a game great. Still, what if someone made a really amazing text-based game today? I think we could refine that to say, "Uses its chosen tools/technology to create an immersive experience..." @Davesnot: I tried NWN1 online, but I was turned off by all the additional material I had to install and get working for the thing to work. After the game's uninspired singleplayer campaign and several nights applying patches, updates, and mods, I lost interest in it. @bkw: Unfortunately, not all the players in MMOs are interested in fostering an immersive game setting. Even that aside, another reason why the idea of MMO-as-living-persistent-world doesn’t seem ideal to me is that someone is going to have to play the roles normally taken by NPCs. Though there are some people who enjoy this, I don’t, and I don’t think a substantial enough portion of the MMO community does to support a game that was purely player-to-player interaction.

@hank: That’s a pretty good alternative vision of what makes a game great. Still, what if someone made a really amazing text-based game today? I think we could refine that to say, “Uses its chosen tools/technology to create an immersive experience…”

@Davesnot: I tried NWN1 online, but I was turned off by all the additional material I had to install and get working for the thing to work. After the game’s uninspired singleplayer campaign and several nights applying patches, updates, and mods, I lost interest in it.

]]> By: Davesnot http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25018 Davesnot Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:34:21 +0000 http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25018 script run NPCs are ok for "extras" that acknowledge your presence and go on their way.. but NWN allows a DM (or a team of DMs) to "possess" NPCs and run them live.. talking, etc.. they could respond to your revolver conversation however the DM wanted them to.. NWN1 with a DM is the way to go. Again.. I have to sigh.. as nobody that isn't already playing NWN1 (not as released.. but after years of community content and official patches).. if you ain't playin' it.. you most likely won't be... your loss. script run NPCs are ok for “extras” that acknowledge your presence and go on their way.. but NWN allows a DM (or a team of DMs) to “possess” NPCs and run them live.. talking, etc.. they could respond to your revolver conversation however the DM wanted them to.. NWN1 with a DM is the way to go.

Again.. I have to sigh.. as nobody that isn’t already playing NWN1 (not as released.. but after years of community content and official patches).. if you ain’t playin’ it.. you most likely won’t be… your loss.

]]> By: Solid Suggestions for RPGs at Augury http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25013 Solid Suggestions for RPGs at Augury Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:24:24 +0000 http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25013 [...] Archives « Of RPGs and Knowledge [...] [...] Archives « Of RPGs and Knowledge [...]

]]> By: bargamer http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25012 bargamer Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:28:19 +0000 http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25012 I agree with the immersiveness. But in your article, essentially you're raising NPCs to the level of open-minded 10-year-olds. Eventually the memory required to handle all the AI scripts on your computer would be ridiculous. (Altho having the world taken over by robots would be cool, NPCs would just be silly.) Another thing that I think makes a good RPG is the economy and crafting system. Some of the best times I had in WoW was crafting. Then Burning Crusade came out, but that's the subject of another rant. Story. Characters. Growth of the Player. Voice-Acting. All these are the same thing, essentially: How well the designer/whoever wrote the story. After that, it's just code. I totally agree with you about the mini-management bias in some RTS. A guy could have a crap strategy, but because he executed it earlier in the teching-up rush, he deserves to win? Forget that. I agree with the immersiveness. But in your article, essentially you’re raising NPCs to the level of open-minded 10-year-olds. Eventually the memory required to handle all the AI scripts on your computer would be ridiculous. (Altho having the world taken over by robots would be cool, NPCs would just be silly.)

Another thing that I think makes a good RPG is the economy and crafting system. Some of the best times I had in WoW was crafting. Then Burning Crusade came out, but that’s the subject of another rant.

Story. Characters. Growth of the Player. Voice-Acting. All these are the same thing, essentially: How well the designer/whoever wrote the story. After that, it’s just code.

I totally agree with you about the mini-management bias in some RTS. A guy could have a crap strategy, but because he executed it earlier in the teching-up rush, he deserves to win? Forget that.

]]> By: hank http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25011 hank Thu, 27 Sep 2007 13:01:36 +0000 http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25011 A good RPG, for me, uses whatever level of technology that is available to create an immersive environment. I'm willing to forgive a lot if the level of immersion is so high that for a minute (or hour or 4) I forget I am playing a game, forget I am interacting through the world via bandwidth-constricting keyboard and mouse... a good RPG will leave memories like a good film does. For all of the fancy graphics and AI and other advances in the past years, my most vivid game memory is still Flood Control Dam #3 from Zork. I can see it very clearly in my head, and for a game that consisted of text on a screen that is a major accomplishment. A good RPG, for me, uses whatever level of technology that is available to create an immersive environment. I’m willing to forgive a lot if the level of immersion is so high that for a minute (or hour or 4) I forget I am playing a game, forget I am interacting through the world via bandwidth-constricting keyboard and mouse… a good RPG will leave memories like a good film does.

For all of the fancy graphics and AI and other advances in the past years, my most vivid game memory is still Flood Control Dam #3 from Zork. I can see it very clearly in my head, and for a game that consisted of text on a screen that is a major accomplishment.

]]> By: bkw http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25010 bkw Thu, 27 Sep 2007 12:27:28 +0000 http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25010 This is why, I would argue, MMOs are so popular. This is an approach to the "Why bother writing a program to do all this, when you could just have a PC playing an NPC?" question. Amusing: the captcha is "human" This is why, I would argue, MMOs are so popular. This is an approach to the “Why bother writing a program to do all this, when you could just have a PC playing an NPC?” question.

Amusing: the captcha is “human”

]]> By: Twenty Sided » What Makes a Great RPG? http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25009 Twenty Sided » What Makes a Great RPG? Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:26:59 +0000 http://www.cineris.org/blog/2007/09/26/of-rpgs-and-programming/#comment-25009 [...] LATER: Don’t miss this excellent response over at Augury. [...] [...] LATER: Don’t miss this excellent response over at Augury. [...]

]]>